++++++++++++ July 16 Transcript +++ I think and I believe, therefore I don't have a clue!!! +++++++++++++++++++

MATTHEWS:  Thank you.  Well, let me ask you about impeachment.  What are the grounds?  I mean, imagine you‘re a member calling for impeachment on the floor of the Senate, or conviction.  What would you say?

SHEEHAN:  Well, I would say the lies and the deceptions that led to an illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq, that has led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, I would say breaking the FISA laws by spying on Americans without warrants that George Bush admitted to, I would say the inadequate and tragic response to Katrina.  I would say for authorizing torture.  I would say for authorizing consolidating executive power, all the power in one branch.  And I think there are many grounds that impeachment could be started on.

MATTHEWS:  Do you believe that we have waged an aggressive war in Iraq?

SHEEHAN:  Well, I think that it was illegal and immoral.  There were no weapons of mass destructions.  There was no connection between Saddam and 9/11, and all evidence has shown, especially this week, that what we‘re doing is strengthening al Qaeda and strengthening hatred against us for occupying the country and destroying a country that was no threat to us.

MATTHEWS:  Why do you think President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, the other hawks in this administration—why do you think they took us to war?

SHEEHAN:  Well, I think it was a lot to do with oil.  It was a lot to do with destabilizing that region, which they have done very thoroughly.  The Iraqi refugee crisis has made the entire region compromised there.  And I think it was for profit.  I mean, it‘s for Halliburton.  It‘s for Blackwater.  It‘s for Standard Oil.  It‘s for the war profiteers.  And that‘s why war is usually waged.

MATTHEWS:  You believe that this was—this war was fought because people in the White House decided to make some money for their pals in business?  You really believe that?

SHEEHAN:  I believe that that...

MATTHEWS:  That they sent...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS:  That they sent 3,600 Americans to their death and 20,000-some losing their arms and legs and killed another 100,000 Arabs so that they could get richer?

SHEEHAN:  As Major General Smedley Butler said, War is a racket.  It always has been, and it always will be.  And I believe that that‘s one of the reasons.  It‘s what Dwight Eisenhower warned us of when he left office, the military-industrial complex.

MATTHEWS:  Yes, but he was warning us about people like Kennedy and Rockefeller, who wanted to spend more money on the budget on defense spending.  But was he warning us about...

SHEEHAN:  Well, if we don‘t...

MATTHEWS:  ... war profiteering...

SHEEHAN:  Well, if we don‘t...

MATTHEWS:  Do you really believe that Cheney...

SHEEHAN:  Absolutely.  Absolutely.

MATTHEWS:  OK.

SHEEHAN:  Cheney, and he was the CEO of Halliburton that got the no-bid contracts.

MATTHEWS:  Right.

SHEEHAN:  And it is for strengthening the military-industrial complex, because they can‘t build more bombs and tanks and guns if we don‘t use them, if we don‘t deplete them.  And that‘s one of the major reasons for it.  And also, it‘s for controlling the natural resources.  And if it‘s not for that, what was it for, Chris?  It wasn‘t for...

MATTHEWS:  That‘s what I‘m asking.

SHEEHAN:  It wasn‘t for terrorism because it‘s just made terrorism worse.  And al Qaeda wasn‘t in Iraq before we invade.

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MATTHEWS:  ... on day one.  They‘ve never come back strong enough against their positions.

SHEEHAN:  I agree.  I agree.  And we need to support people who will be courageous in supporting our troops, really supporting our troops by bringing them home.

MATTHEWS:  You know what?  I like your passion.  I‘m very careful about motive, though.  Whenever you assign motives to the other side, you‘re in a dangerous area because you don‘t know why they‘re supporting this war.  You just don‘t like the war, and that‘s fair enough with me.  Thank you very much, Cindy Sheehan.

SHEEHAN:  Well, I—read “War Is a Racket,” Chris.